Top 3 Clipless Pedal Myths
Most people go through life never realizing that most of “reality” is nothing more than their paradigm on stuff, shaped by physical and mental experiences. For example, most people would think that running a marathon is extremely hard, if not impossible. Based on their lack of endurance and experience running, plus the extra 20-30 pounds they are likely carrying, their mind forms the reality that a marathon is “hard”.
However, someone who trains for a marathon and runs them regularly probably has a different opinion on the subject. Their brain scans their physical shape and mental experiences and says that running for a few hours at a good clip isn’t so bad and is, in fact, enjoyable. Each person has their reality…and it can change.
If the first person decided to train hard and make it happen they could get to the physical and mental place where they too feel than running a marathon isn’t “hard” anymore. If the second person broke their leg and had to take a lot of time off their physical and mental state would change and what used to be easy is once again hard. Your reality isn’t permanent and it can be changed rather easily.
So, what the heck does all this have to do with mountain biking? There are a lot of “truths” surrounding clipless pedals that are nothing more than a shared paradigm towards working around common weaknesses. Here are a few of the ones that really drive me nuts:
- Clipless pedals let you pedal with more power. Absolutely not true…there is nothing that shows that clipless pedals definitively let you produce more raw “power”. They do let you artificially strengthen the weak link of the feet which allows you to pedal longer before power starts to wane, which is useful for multi-hour/ multi-day racing, but there is absolutely no raw “power” advantage in clipless pedals. The fact that you can’t climb that steep hill without them is more in your head and lack of pedaling technique (see below).
- You need to be able to pull up on your pedals to produce max power. Again, this is simply not true no matter how many times it gets repeated. When studied, the best peddlers are not pulling up and producing power on the upstroke. They are instead getting the trail leg un-weighted and out of the way for the far more powerful down stroke of the lead leg. They can finish the pedal stroke off with their hips, which makes the pulling motion unnecessary. Less skilled peddlers use the clipless interface as a crutch to bypass the hips and place extra stress on the already chronically tight hip flexors.
- Standing up to pedal is hard and doing it too much will tire you out; it is better to sit and spin and save your energy. While not directly tied to clipless pedals, most of the advantages of clipless pedals are lost when you stand and so riders that use them tend to sit and spin a lot. Standing up to pedal is only hard if you lack the core strength and hip drive to stabilize and power from the standing position. Most riders come into mountain biking with weak cores, weak hips and serious dysfunctions from sitting all the time. The old “standing is hard” mindset isn’t true once you fix these things (and yes, they do need fixing if you value your knees and hips).
I think that a lot of riders are trapped by the paradigm that clipless pedals are somehow definitively superior when the facts tell us something much different. Just because most people come into mountain biking with dysfunctions that make it initially easier to use clipless pedals doesn’t mean that they are hands down better.
In the hands of someone whose reality isn’t shaped by the same dysfunctions flat pedals allow you to ride every bit as hard and far; you just have to use a different technique that isn’t possible without addressing the core and hip weakness that are really at the root of the issue.
Let me close with this…in the hands of someone who isn’t using them to mask dysfunction clipless shoes and pedals are a useful tool. However, I think that they are like competition shoes in track.
Track runners don’t train in the same shoes they race in; they know that race shoes are specialized equipment that should be used to enhance race day performance. They don’t use them everyday in practice simply to massage their ego and run faster times. They know that they will run slower in training but be faster for it on race day.
I think that clipless shoes and pedals should be looked at the same way – competition level performance enhancing technology that isn’t meant to be used everyday by your average rider. Flat pedals will enhance your technical skills and confidence, teach you better pedaling technique and save your knees, hips and low back – not a bad trade off if you can get past the “myths” surrounding clipless pedals.
-James Wilson-
Granted, I have 25 years in BMX behind me so it only makes sense, but once I got over trying to ride like an XC racer and started standing up to get up the hills and sprint the flats, not only did I get WAY less fatigued, but my lap times came down dramatically.
Clips vs. flats: (again, using a bmx situation) I put out 2060 watts on a G-Cog (it`s like an SRM made specifically for BMX racing, and a device all of the US Olympic bmx team uses) equipped bmx bike clipped in over a 50 yard sprint. My best on platforms was just over 1800. Those results were consistent with everyone else participating, but so was the fact that the average power output got close and closer the longer the sprint was. There was a HUGE difference in how soon we hit max power clipped in.
With that said, on a mtb trail where you`ll spend FAR less time at max cadence the power outputs (I only speculate) would be likely identical. I turn in nearly identical lap times at most of our XC trails on flats or clipless, and riding flats is more fun. I grew up on flats, and even racing bmx at the pro level clipped in I pedaled the same way I do on flats. I basically used the clipless attachment to keep my feet on place through rhythm sections or pedaling through stuff you just couldn`t on platforms.
Pulling up: fact or fiction? FICTION. Focusing on the act of pulling up is a waste of time and energy. You *might* find yourself passively pulling up in anticipation of the next downstroke, but making a point of actively pulling up is just another detail to distract you from your ride.
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Amen James! I used clipless pedals since I was 16 years old. I use to think that if you didn’t use clipless pedals you were not a real mountain biker. Then I started having knee pain about 2 years ago. I tried everything… bike fittings… different cleat positions… you name it I tried it. Then I found your MTB Strength Training Program and blog. I’d been toying with moving to flats but never fully committed. After reading the barefooted post I decided to give it an honest try and start the strength training program at the same time. I found with a stronger core I’m able to pedal 10 times better then I ever had with my clipless. Knee pain… GONE! I can hardly remember the last time I had knee pain.
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bikejames Reply:
June 30th, 2010 at 7:45 am
@ Chris – Way to go! You represent exactly what I’m trying to do – free peoples minds to think for themselves and actually see if flats are as bad as most riders make them out to be.
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for me being clipped in on XC type rides just means i can split my effort between pushing and pulling rather than concentrating specifically on pushing. granted i only do it when i start to get tired. i ride DH on flats and love it. i could also loose more than a few pounds which would help all round!
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bikejames Reply:
June 30th, 2010 at 9:55 am
@ Ant – just want to make sure you saw the myth about pulling up and how it is not good pedaling form and will result in too much stress on the hip flexors…
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I am one that was convinced by others that if I want to be efficient, I will have to go clipless. After two thousand miles commuting on my road bike with clippless pedals…my MTB riding buddy beats me standing up mostly the whole MTB race on platforms.
He also can climb short steep hills of which I end up crashed clipped in.
I read the post here on platform pedals…switched and have been happy ever since.
I started the MTB strength program and now stand up much more.
Without a doubt standing gives me much more control and platforms let me stick with a maneuvering effort that split second longer resulting in many more successes.
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I gotta say, that even when I was commuting with flats, I had a harder time sticking with a high cadence spin. When I ride with my clipless pedals I’m able to smoothly pedal at a much faster rate, which keeps me in the saddle longer, and I prefer for climbing since I’ll sit until my spinning slows down enough to warrant a good standing climb.
I do agree that the eggbeater pedaling is bogus. Every time I tried it, at the request from my roadie buddies, I found that I just tired myself out more than getting up and sprinting, plus, the concentration needed to effectively time the stroking slowed down my rhythm. Lastly, it feels like its putting unnecessary stress on the shoe itself, and those things are expensive, so why pedal in a way that’s going to cause early failure.
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I think I am convinced. what platform pedals do you guys recommend. I am an XC rider and would be looking for something in the $50 – $100 range. thanks.
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bikejames Reply:
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:33 pm
@ scott – Azonic A-Frame pedals are a great entry level flat pedal. Kona makes a really sweet pedals as well that is not too much but offer a good flat profile and excellent traction. Make sure you invest in some 5:10 shoes as well. You can actually find them on http://www.zappos.com if no one in your area carries them. They are essential for a good flat pedal experience. Hope this help…
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I use to race BMX and Now its clip-less only. What is all this talk about clipless not stand up. I climb mostly standing up. On flats its way slower to climb. Maybe its just me. Another thing I like is the lack of shin scrapes. I even ride DH with clipless.
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OK James. I’m going to give XC platforms a chance on Sunday’s Powerline race. If I place 5th or higher the beers are on me… last year I was 6th with clips.
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bikejames Reply:
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:35 pm
If some one falls in a puddle in front of you don’t stop and help, just keep on charging…
Johnny “Yellow Shin Pads” Freerider
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I commented on an earlier post saying that my Five Tens were in the mail. Since riding on them, I have a big pile of clipless pedals in the corner of my apartment.
I have been racing pro slalom on flats, and I have never felt faster or more confident in corners. After racing at Diablo on Saturday, I decided to take my slalom bike out for an XC ride on Sunday. I spent two hours on a 90 degree day on hill, tech east coast terrain on my 27 pound short Santa Cruz Jackal, flat pedals and seat dropped an inch off the tire.
I believed in flat pedals for gravity riding, but this was my first trail ride on them. It changed my mind about everything as far as bike technology. My 22 pound Stumpjumper hardtail (including pedals) is on ebay as we speak…
From now on, I’m riding what I have fun on; not what “everyone” says is best.
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bikejames Reply:
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:37 pm
@ Trevor – that is great. I love getting feedback like that, it really makes me feel we’re on to something with trying to liberate the masses from clipless pedals and the road riding influence that grips out sport.
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@Trevor: Best. Post. Ever. LOL. YOu and I think a lot alike.
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Why are 5:10′s so good? Can I get some cheap Vans instead to try? How are 5:10′s anything like barefooting (which I think has merit)?
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bikejames Reply:
July 5th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
The sticky rubber and semi-stiff soles are tough to appreciate until you experience them. They don’t have to overly stiff soles and arch support you find in clipless shoes so that allows for natural foot movement, which is the real idea behind the “barefoot training” concept…
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The rubber used on the 5:10 shoes was initially made for rock climbers I believe. They now have a few different compounds for the different purposes, but they are all extremely soft and sticky.The sole is mildly stiff (more than a regular skate shoe), but still enough give to be comfortable. It`s a difference you can`t really grasp until you`ve ridden with them.
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James,
You never said how flats “save your knees, hips, and lower back” ? I have lower back pain on the right side when I ride. I usually do ride clipless. But I have 5:10 shoes and flats and ride them sometime. I notice no difference in power like you say, and they are fine for 90% of my riding except on steep. rocky uphills where I tend to bounce off the pedals. If I could figure how to not get bounceed off on those steep, rocky uphills, I’d use them all the time. Any ideas on how to prevent this?
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bikejames Reply:
July 5th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
@ Walt – that is a core strength issue. The ability to ground yourself and apply pressure through your feet is a skill that has to be worked on. Strength training helps develop it since you have to learn how to apply force through your feet into the ground. This is another thing that riders don’t realize is “real” but can be changed.
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If flat pedals were the most efficient wouldn’t all the pros be running them? They’d run over your grandmother for a few more seconds.
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bikejames Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 7:09 am
@ Jen – two things there. First, at one point every high jumper used a scissor kick. No one would break out of the mold and try something different until ol’ Fosbury came along and developed a better way. Up until that point, though, you could have argued that since all the top pros used the other method then it was the best, although we know now that it was simply a case of everyone using the same thing, not that it was hands down better.
Second, pros can and should do everything to win. Most people aren’t pros and for them using a piece of technology that helps in competition for every ride they do may not be the best way to go about it…or at least the 85% overuse injury rate among cyclists would suggest that.
Again, I’m not saying that flats are “better”, they just aren’t worse like most riders assume they are. A lot of the advantages attributed to clipless pedals simply aren’t true and that’s all I am trying to point out. If you want to run clipless then fine, just don’t do it based on faulty arguements.
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My feet don’t slip on the downhill or most trail riding situations. I can bunnyhop on flats. I don’t think lack of core strength is the major issue. I can do a few full standing wheel rollouts. TG half my bodyweight…. I’m not weak. I’ve heard other people say the same thing about flat pedals on a rocky uphill. There must be something more to it. Also, please explain the science as to why flat pedals are much better for the knees hips and back? That’s what I’m really looking to know. If you can explain that logically, then I’ll be convinced that flat betters are worth the trade off.
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bikejames Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 7:14 am
@ Walt- let me rephrase it then…you are lacking in a specific application of your (more than) adequate core strength. Being able to “ground” yourself and make your feet heavy while staying loose is a skill that will help with the feet bouncing off. I find that single leg work helps with that but mainly you have to actively practice it during training with everything you do. Or, you may just be trying to pedal in spots that you simply can’t avoid being bounced around and in that case there isn’t much you can do.
Check out this post I did to see my logic behind why an 85% overuse injury rate among cyclists means that something is wrong…
http://www.bikejames.com/cardio-training/barefoot-pedaling-do-clipless-increase-overuse-injuries/
Hope this helps…
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Went for a ride the other night on my clipless and decided to stand on all the hills and I had a blast. If I wanted to chat with my spinning friends I just stood and ground slowly as we went up hills. I used taller gears and went faster than ever before and when I sat down to spin it felt really odd. I was sore the next day I believe because of using new muscles but it was worth it. Went and bought a pair of 5/10′s and am going back to flats. I have to say that even though I went harder and faster I felt better at the end of the ride than when I just spin. Could be because I was having FUN!
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bikejames Reply:
July 12th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
@ Dan – yeah buddy, welcome to the club!
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Im all about cranking up hills and well just cranking standing up. I have been riding clipless for year on my single speed 29er. Well I have been having IT band issues and I wondering if it comes from not enough float in my pedals. The ones I have are 4degree of float. I thought about going back to flats and convers shoes like I did when I was a kid racing BMX. I guess Im just worried about how it is going to work out racing XC 6, 12 and 24hr races, runing flats on a single speed. any one have any ideas on that or have raced singlespeed races with flats.
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bikejames Reply:
September 20th, 2010 at 10:44 am
One of the earliest influences on my career was a guy named Ian King and he always said “if you’re hurt it don’t matter how fit you are”. If you are having issues and you end up injured, you’ll definitely be slower than you would with healthy knees on flats. I think you’ll be surprised at how little it really matters but just some “big picture” advice for you.
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This info is very helpful. I haven’t seen many SS 29er riders chime in here. Do all the same principles you describe apply to that type of riding as well?
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bikejames Reply:
October 11th, 2010 at 10:46 am
yes, this applies to pedaling your bike period, no matter what it is.
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Well, I got my 5:10 Freeriders and some wellgo MG-1 pedals and I’m having more fun, and trying more stuff than I ever did clipless on my SS rigid 29er. There is a learning curve to be sure, but every ride gets better and more fun. I don’t think that people realize how much grip you actually have with 5:10s and good pedals. I rode a very familiar local slickrock trail last weekend and I tried climbs and rollers I NEVER would have tried clipped in. That is enough to keep me on the flats. I’m really glad I stumbled on to this page, this info made my riding improve and made it a lot more fun.
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A few months ago I was riding some DH/FR trails. I nearly always use flats for this style of riding, however I always use clipless for riding trail.
Now when riding DH/FR I normally have my foot positioned with the ball of the foot over the spindle (which is my normal trail riding position as the cleat doesn´t move any further back in the shoe).
However after giving some thought, it made far more sense that I have pretty much the middle of the foot (the arch I suppose) over the middle as this would be far stronger for absorbing big hits and wrapping the soles of the shoes over the pedals (I use 5.10 Savants – basically a running shoe). It immediately felt better from a fatigue perspective as well as increased confidence. I assumed that there was less effort on the lower leg as there is less gastroc/soleus involvement than if on ball of foot (?).
Now in the Flats/clipless saga, would you advocate riders on flats to ride with the ball of the foot over the spindle or to move the foot further forwards.
I recall from many years ago a study that suggested when pushing through the ball of the foot during an exercise (eg leg press) the thighs and in particular the VMedialis would be far more taxed than if pushing the the ball AND heel which would greater utilise the glutes and hamstrings. If this is true, does this translate to MTB and should I ride on the arch of my foot or stick to the ball?
When I stand to ride on my clipless shoe/pedal combo my thighs get tired very quickly however I am now very confident that, since looking at your site for the past few weeks, my glutes are tighter than a ducks backside and are also probably not working properly. My max deadlift over the last year has dropped about 20kg and my ability to put a curve in my L back during a simple DL or front squat is pathetic!
Anyway, enough of the waffle, I´d be very grateful for some input / advice.
Muchas Gracias
UTM
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bikejames Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
I ride on the mid-foot, which is literally between the ball and the arch. This lets you drive your feet into the pedals while also letting you drop your heels more effectively for braking and riding steep terrain. Get stronger on your deadlift and you’ll feel a big difference on the trail.
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You have got to be kidding. Only a very few, very gifted MTB riders can climb on flats with anywhere near the proficiency that you can exhibit climbing with clipless.
There is also the issue of getting your foot knocked off in rough terrain.
I ride with both nearly 50/50.
They are both great ways to get you and your bike out the door and into the woods.
But if we are going to climb something big and steep I’m going clipless.
There is no comparison.
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bikejames Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 9:23 am
I can climb just as well as anyone I’ve ever ridden with on flats. Sam Hill wins DH World Cup races on flats. So obviously you can climb on flats and keep your feet on in rough sections. Your experience doesn’t mean that is the truth, simply your experience.
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I totally see where you are coming from in the flats vs. clips argument, it makes total sense. I have been racing at a high level for 10 years and have used clips 95% of the time. I have recently switched to flats on my mountain bike and road bike to help speed up the learning curve. A couple of things I noticed are that riding flats makes you focus on your pedal stroke and body posture a lot more, because if you don’t you really notice the efficiency going down.
The only things i’m still struggling with are power at the downstroke seems less with flats, I think due to the stiffness of the shoes and not having that connection point. The other on the mountain bike is control of the bike. I notice line changes and quick maneuvers and bike shifts are slower with flats. I have only been on 3 mountain bike rides with flats so far but feel comfortable already. Do you think these issues are learning curve? Did you experience any of these issues when you switched? How would you describe bike control and bike handling in the clips vs. flats argument?
Thanks man, I enjoy reading this site, it has been very helpful so far.I will be getting the training program as soon as I get back to work!
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bikejames Reply:
March 10th, 2011 at 10:42 am
There is a learning curve to it, just like there was a learning curve with clipless pedals. Give yourself 2 weeks and you’ll be feeling much better. The exercises I have listed in the Top 3 Clipless Pedal Myths special report will help a lot and are a good place to start.
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This is pretty interesting. I’m a keen road and cross rider. I don’t have a license, but I have been riding for 15 years for fitness and can keep up easily on the local club rides. I ride with BMX flats and sneakers. I consider it my duty to provide entertainment to those cyclists that swear blind that it is impossible/dangerous/ridiculous to ride a road bike in flats. A butt of jokes if you will. I’m tough skinned and don’t mind the jibes. I had a pair of Shimano MTB SPD pedals and shoes and rode them for two years – I’m not mentally defective, but the number of times I was late un-clipping in traffic was beginning to worry me. So I went back to flats. I love the look on a fully lycra’d and clipped in carbon missile as I pass them in sneakers. Oh the humanity. Just remember flat pedallers – cycling for fun and even serious fitness doesn’t have to mean emulating every aspect of the Pro-Tour. It is possible to be fast and fit on the road in flats. I recommend flat pedals with the little replaceable spikes on. I haven’t skinned my shins since I was a kid.
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Just this weekend I made the switch to SPD after riding MTB with platforms for about 4 years. I had ridden clipless on the road before and had even tested them out one time before for MTB, but wasn’t sold.
I agree with all of your statements regarding platforms and would like to reiterate the point that riding platforms made me a better rider. The only reason I’m making the change now is that I’m riding faster and harder on more difficult terrain than ever before, while at the same time training up for some racing.
All of that being said, I do not regret AT ALL my time spent on platforms and will gladly make the jump back to them if I decide to rachet back the intensity of my riding.
Great site, great discussion, great points… GO DO.
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bikejames Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 8:53 am
Great points, thanks for keeping an open mind. As you rightly pointed out, I have nothing against clipless, just against using them before you really know how to pedal and ride without them.
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Great article! I agree that it comes down to personal preference. Of course, once I went clipless, I never looked back!
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Great article. Growing up racing BMX on flats I feel comfortable riding XC on flats with good shoes (wellgo MG1 and Shimano AM40s) I love being able to move around on the bike and I am certain I have saved quiet a few potentially serious accidents buy not being clipped in. After some silly accidents on my cross bike (clipped in) I will be going flat on that as well.
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I’ve been lucky to be able to train with Powercranks and have finally *learned* from the real physical experience what “pulling” means (it works for me, but I don’t race BMX or DH, I just do AM tours). Before that I *thought* I knew what it was all about, but I was stuck on “the wrong side” of reality… I was just imagining things.
At the end of the day you need to go through that experience in forst person – and not for 10 minutes to see “what’s it like” (this goes for clippers who go flat and viceversa). You have to make that effort to discover the real pros and cons of both techniques.
For me now it’s clipped on the way up, and clipless on the way down (Crank Bros Mallet w/ cleats).
Ciao from Switzerland!
Paul
!!
P.s. Kudos to James for the EXCELLENT articles. Shame you don’t do seminars here in Switzerland
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You mention some studies regarding pedaling (not “peddling.” If one is peddling, then they are selling something). Can you cite these studies? Otherwise, your credibility is suspect.
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bikejames Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 9:25 am
Here is a post I did that has the studies I am referring to:
http://www.bikejames.com/cardio-training/the-science-behind-barefoot-pedaling/
I got them from a presentation done by Andrew Coggan, Ph. D. who’s conclusion was the same as mine. You might recognize him as one of the leading authorities on power training for road cycling – yes, a roadie coach is also saying the same things and he’s not the only one.
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I use wellgo flat pedals B114 and 5 10′s on my road bikes I love them they do not slow me down, 20.4 mph average on a 50 mile bike ride with hills. I can spin at 100-110 rpm without any problem. I ride all my road bikes with any kind of shoes but the 5 10′s are the best.
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I mountain bike in Florida, and cannot imagine using clipless pedals. Many of the trails contain sugar sand and some areas turn to mud after rains. There’s times when I can’t hit the sand at a fast enough pace (like if I’m passing an oncoming bicyclist–a frequent happening) and if it’s thick enough it can toss you if you don’t get a foot down very, very quickly.
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To Walt (posts #13 & #15); my feet used to bounce off the pedals as well when trying to climb when I first switched to flats. I found the problem to be that I was in the wrong gear and I was trying to pedal/spin too fast, as if I were still clipped in. It took a couple of rides to get used to this and it has never been a problem since. I do wish 5-10 had more US size 14 shoes, though…
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RE: Bouncing, I ride Tioga’s, while I wanted to learn early due to my legs looking like I put in a pirhana tank, bouncing was an early issue for me. I learned to keep your heel down on the descents, and forward on ascents. The 510′s just grip like a velociraptors main claw on the Tiogas for me, and the lateral force digs in and my feet dont move a millimeter anymore. It look me quite a bit to get into this habit.
The question I have for James is, is this a bad habit? I see many conformists jumping to clipless and I love the “I get at least 30% more power” statements.
Anyways, appreciate the article, and good comments.
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bikejames Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
No, that’s how your foot is supposed to move. You should be screwing your foot into the pedal as you drive into it, just like you would do when you run or do lower body exercises. Float is actually an unnatural thing and an answer to the lack of foot movement caused by the restrictions of the clipless shoes. Your foot wants to roll in 3 dimensions against a stable surface, not twist back and forth in 2 dimensions.
Read my latest blog post to see that even though you may get an immediate performance bump from clipless (but no where near and extra 30%) that doesn’t mean that you want to use them all the time.
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Hi james, I just changed my SPD to flat. Can I wearing running shoe to pedal “flat”?
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bikejames Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
You can use skater type shoes with flat soles, however running shoes with tread on the bottom won’t work very well. The pins from the flat pedals will sit in the empty spots between the tread and your foot will float around.
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I have been seriously considering this argument. As far as I can tell there is as much valid research supporting clip less pedals as not. The 1979 MacCready team—12 of the top scientists of their time in world—that accomplished the Human Powered Flight across the English Channel used specially designed pedals very similar to todays clip less pedals. This was probably one of the finest teams of scientists every assembled, with a profound understanding of biomechanics. Without this team and Bryan Allen (the pilot) this feat could not have been accomplished. Allen had to pedal full power for 2 hrs 49 mins to cross the channel. He needed the resistance from the propeller and the connection to the pedals to keep the thrust constant.
I believe I am teachable to that end, I have been riding on flat pedals with my seat lowered for the last week. The pain in my lower back, and my left knee has returned. It would seem that for me; riding with clip less pedals and my seat in the full height—normal for me—position is the answer.
This subject has started many interesting conversations with my friends. One point that was raised was that this idea of lowering the saddle didn’t really grab hold until the younger generation of MTB’ers came up riding with baggy shorts. The older riders whom wear bike shorts don’t worry about lowering the saddle. Some have even suggested that it is much harder to ride a Mt Bike with a lowered saddle and clip less pedals. Therefore, baggy shorts = lower saddles = flat pedals—logical. As my attorney friend said, “don’t search for meaning where there is none.”
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bikejames Reply:
January 4th, 2012 at 8:35 am
I am not sure I followmthe logic there. You can not lower your seat and switch to flat pedals and not expect some sort of learning curve that may take more than a week to sort out. Hopefully you are standing up and not just riding around sitting down with a lowered seat becuase that is not what I advise. I would also not advise jst lowering it and leaving it there the whole ride, you may need to put it up and down over the course of a ride, which is why adjustable seatposts are so great. Flat pedals and a lowered seat are not the problem, whatever you are doing with them is.
Also, the first “mountain bikers” had chopped up cruisers they railed downhill in jeans. Seems the lycra came later. Plus, any skills coach will tell you that you have to get the seat down to best control your bike so the type of shorts you wear has nothing to do with it. Getting your seat down lets you manuever the bike better.
Just because you are good with what you know (clipless and seat raised) doesn’t mean that it is better. The roadie influence is deep in our sport – remember when mountain bikes had drop bars? – and trying to look at baggy shorts as the cause of my advise is interesting but not true.
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I enjoyed the article and arguments but not sold on platforms yet. I spent the first 20 or so years of my riding on flats. Then a year or so in toe clips. Horrible things, but greatly improved my riding. I followed that with the first SPDs and saw another significant performance boost but did get knee pain and did get stuck clipped in a few times. I have spent the last 15 or so years on Speedplay Frogs and find that these have all the benefits of SPDs but with no spring tension and therefor no knee pain and no getting stuck clipped in.
I don’t have specific numbers for increased wattage, but I do know that I can get up to speed much faster and climb hills in far better contol in the Speedplays than on flats. I am also so used to them that it is quite dangerous for me to ride hard on flats. I feel much more connected to the bike and in far better control in all situations. I even use them in the Whistler bike park on my DH bike.
I thinkthe pedal issue is an individual thing. I have been told more times by people here in the Squamish area that I should be on flats. The simple truth is I am uncomfortable on flats and prefer the feeling of being attached to the bike.
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bikejames Reply:
January 10th, 2012 at 10:33 am
That is fine but just know that being uncomfortable on flats means that you have flaws in your pedaling and skills techniques that the attachment point is making up for. Sam Hill seems to do pretty well on flats, trials riders don’t clip in and neither do slopestyle riders so if clipless pedals really gave you better control then I would thin that the most technically proficient riders on the planet would use them. In the end it comes down to using what you like but just know that you should be almost as good on flats as with clipless or else that points to some underlying problems that, once addressed, would make you a better rider.
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